AuctionCut

by **thecountryowl** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:36 am

Well, how do you handle feedback? After payment, as a seller, do you leave it right away, or wait? As a buyer, do you expect it right away, or after you post feedback?

by **Mark** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:54 pm

As a seller I try to leave it as early as possible. I've always insisted & there are a lot of members who will disagree with me, that once a buyer has paid there obligation is over.

by **Wayne** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:01 pm

As a seller I always give the feedback once payment has been recieved I mean what more am I supposed to give them feedback for? It annoys me so much when as a buyer some seller says leave me feedback and I will do the same???? Basically I give the money asap sometimes immediately what more do they want?

by **Debbie** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:38 am

I have only bought a few items so can only say from that point of view. I give feedback as soon as possible after recieving the goods and am happy with what I have recieved. Up to now I haven't had a problem. Must admit though that when I am asked for payment it normally has a request for me to put feedback on first and they will reply with theirs. Not a big deal to me but I can see somepeople getting a little annoyed as they have done their part as the buyer.

by **gravtex** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:56 pm

I agree with the other sellers here. I also leave feedback as soon as they pay for the item. They did their job and deserve positive feedback.

Gary

by **dhavard** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:18 pm

I leave feedback as soon as I receive payment. And expect the same when I am buying.

by **thecountryowl** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:44 pm

Rarely happens anymore. I pay for items all the time. No feedback. I won't get any unless I post it first. Sellers are too afraid of idiot buyers I guess.

by **Ludwig** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:54 pm

The feedback rating system was a really good idea but I think many sellers are just really cautious now and in all honesty I can hardly blame them when I see some of the negative entries.
If people would just communicate with each other first instead of trying to sort problems out in public it would be much better for everyone.
With that said I always give feedback once I have recieved an item in the condition it was described.

by **thecountryowl** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:06 pm

I think that a seller should be a little more generous with their feedback entries when the buyer is clearly a good risk, has great feedback, and has left few or no negs to any seller.

On the other hand, with a new buyer, or one that is obviously combative, I can see the cautionary attitude.

by **ethan** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:03 am

thecountryowl wrote:Rarely happens anymore. I pay for items all the time. No feedback. I won't get any unless I post it first. Sellers are too afraid of idiot buyers I guess.

Bingo! I NEVER post positive feedback unless I have received it first. I used to, but then I would receive a completely unwarranted negative feedback and I was left with no recourse. Now I keep that in the chamber ready to shoot if the buyer gives me any crap with the feedback. I should also add that in more than one occasion negative feedback has been withdrawn after I retaliated in kind and then offered the withdrawal. If not, you are screwed when you get a comment that says something like "good product, but it took too long to get here" when you shipped it overnight and the guy just happened not to be at home when the FedEx guy showed up.

by **stevew8975** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:37 pm

I have my Selling Manager pro set to send a follow-up email 30 days after despatch, more as a courtesy to see that everything was OK, rather than a request for feedback. Most people take in the manner it was intended, either by replying with a quick email, or by leaving a feedback comment.

Except one muppet who replied with this...

"How dare you have the impertancy to contact me regarding leaving feedback when you did not have the common decency to leave me feedback when it was obvious I sent a cheque the same day I won the auction. I will leave appropriate feedback when it is left for me.

Good day to you.

Phil"

My reply was simple and to the point - "As a seller, I base my feedback comments on more than just the speed of payment; problem resolution, politeness and communication are also considered, and it is obvious to anybody that this can only be evaluated once the entire transaction is complete, not simply one part of it.

I'm sure you can now see that our transaction has not yet been completed as one party has not been fully satisfied, yet communication has failed to notify the other party of this problem.

Feedback is entirely voluntary, so if you do not wish to leave a comment that is perfectly acceptable to me, I simply needed to know that the item had arrived safely and it meets your needs."

(and now on my blocked bidder list..)

I am fully confident of the service levels I provide, but as mentioned above, I need to have someform of recourse in the event of trigger happy buyers who refuse to discuss problems.

by **tobyjugg2** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:05 am

[quote="stevew8975"]
Except one muppet who replied with this...

"How dare you have the impertancy to contact me regarding leaving feedback when you did not have the common decency to leave me feedback when it was obvious I sent a cheque the same day I won the auction. I will leave appropriate feedback when it is left for me.

Good day to you.

Phil"

Too right. He paid in good faith, before recieving the item, and you did not afford him the same with regard to his payment.

You needed trust from him to buy it, he should expect the same from you.

If you are a good seller that should not be an issue. Clearly you have doubts on that, You are effectively holding the buyers rating to ransom.

by **adonisb** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:57 pm

Good topic! I wait until I know they received the item and are completely satisfied BEFORE I leave feedback.

by **monkeymeg** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:36 pm

If you go onto the Ebay forums and pose a question regarding feedback they actually have a team there that will abuse, insult and try and bannish anyone that believes the buyer should get feedback after they pay.

Generally I think that the complete details of a neutral or negative feedback should remain for all to see and evaluate the details. The payment details are known about the transaction and people can see when the item was paid and people would stick to more of the facts that are contained within the history and verbiage of the original contract. People are generally smart enough to tell who is a liar. The disappearance of the details make this impossible.

I have found that Ebay is actually very active in their forums promoting the seller wait theory to everyone. If you think that Ebay doesnt have employees actively promoting discussion and censoring anything they do not like to see give it a go and see what I mean. The feedback section is as good as any. You will also note that there is a team of individuals there that have effectively taken over the part of the forum to discourage anyone that has a different point of view. As is seen in the responses here many do believe that the seller should leave feedback as soon as the contractual obligations of the buyer have been fulfilled. If you go onto the forums you will be kind of shocked to see the responses you will receive. They will also post a high number of negative votes to ensure that your message is met with a rating used for the community section as well. Totally disfunctional yet Ebay is fully behind this and lets it thrive.

It goes like this. Ebay wants all new people onto Ebay to see as rosey a picture as possible. Less negatives means the picture looks prettier. There is a definite hurdle for a person to go over to trust doing an internet transaction. Put even a few negatives into the mix and these people don't want to bother with the prospect of a problem transaction.

Ebays defence for feedback is that they do not want to get involved with feedback as they only see themselves under section 230 of the communications act as an ISP provider. They use this defence for fraud, selling of fake goods and every single vagaury that exists with Ebay. However they do feel perfectly comfortable in putting their rubber boots on and censoring items in the forums.

Ebay makes money off the sale of fraud and the sale of fake goods and has become a haven for this activity. Why would they want to stop it when they are making money off of it.

Take a look at the porn on Ebay. Community values and a major distribution venue for porn?? Take a look around Ebay and see if you really would even allow your children to go onto this site.

What Ebay needs is a feedback system for people to rate them on the values that they profess.

Management at Ebay is a knee jerk team that have no idea how big an abyss they have created and I think Ebay is in full swing to a lemon market. Too much fraud. Hackers seem to rule the sight at will. Feedback system is a joke. Customer support is a shell of boiler plate letters from non existent employees. Mandates given to employees to squish negative communication on Ebay forums. Management lies about very serious breach in the security system attacks.

This site is a testiment for the fact that something is not right at Ebay. Why is there so many sites like this? If I was a shareholder it would be the first question I would ask.

Take a look at the bigger picture .. rosey feedback = better cash flow and the feedback retaliation is being promoted not discouraged. See how long you last on ebay publishing any internet fact or legal battle that is fact and see how long it remains in the community section. Personally I find this cover up activity on Ebay to only invite further enlightenment to other people through venues like this internet site and it is great that the voice of people will not get squished by ineffective management. Those days are long gone. Thanks to the originator of the site.

by **stevew8975** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:34 pm

tobyjugg2 wrote:You needed trust from him to buy it, he should expect the same from you.

If you are a good seller that should not be an issue. Clearly you have doubts on that, You are effectively holding the buyers rating to ransom.

I've tonight had another message along similar lines, and noticed this thread has come up again. I originally this posted elsewhere when I was having a bad day and took grief on the matter, so the tone is maybe a little harsh for now, but the point of the matter remains...

Just to add my tuppence to this rant, it is something I now feel strongly about as I have had my fingers burnt on a few occasons when I did leave feedback upon receipt of payment. As far as I, and eBay are concerned, feedback should be left upon completion of the transaction, but this surely only happens after the buyer has received the item and has confirmed they are happy with it? If the transaction ends with a buyer paying, then there's gonna be a lot of items that are not sent - surely despatching an item means the transaction is still continuing? Even eBay state that the buyer should leave feedback first - Source

I advertised an item with a damaged box, and clearly stated this in the listing, as well as reducing the price. Buyer paid, I left feedback, then had the privilige of receiving a neutral as the box was damaged. I've also had a neutral that simply stated "Where's my Item?"

I made a post on another forum after being asked "As a Buyer who has paid, what more is the seller waiting for?" Here's a few examples that answered their question...
-Confirmation they are satisfied with the item;
-communication in the event of problems;
-not receiving pushy emails demanding to know where the item is within hours of payment;
-not being asked where the item is 2 days after an e-cheque payment has been started;
-not being asked for the item to be posted to an unconfirmed or differing paypal address;
-not being pestered every morning at 9.05am because the postman hasn't arrived yet;
-no complaints that the buyer had to collect the parcel from the post office because a bundle of 7 DVD's would not fit through their letter box;
-no complaints that the postman got them out of bed to sign for the parcel;
-no complaints that the packaging was damaged even though it was listed as shop soiled;
-no complaints that the postman joked that the brown jiffy bag contained porn, I should be using white ones;
-no complaints about combined postage charges when the items are ALL listed as free postage;
-no neutrals for a PS2 game that it does not work on the buyers PSOne;
-no complaints that the Region 1 DVD where the listing boldly states that a multi-region player is required does not work on their UK DVD player;
-no paypal disputes relating to fraudulent use of a credit card chargeback because it was hubby buying wife a present that she did not like;
-no emails a week after dispatch asking for a refund because they have had an unexpectedly large gas bill and need the money;

ad nauseum....

All genuine, and some from personal experience. I don't fear a neg for poor service or late despatch, mis-description etc - these areas I have fully under control, but a neg from an idiot needs to be replied to as a warning to other sellers. I can tell everyone how quickly a buyer paid, but I also want to be able to warn people if the buyer is a numpty!! I can't do this until I have had chance to (hopefully not) experience this for myself.

Recently eBay have changed their seller performance policy, so that Neutrals are just as damaging to sellers as a negative is.

Most neutrals are left by naive buyers without prior communication, and are easily avoidable with a bit of contact. The fact that eBay want to use a series of unsubstantiated comments as a further stick to beat sellers with is morally wrong. Source

I could easily wipe out a competitor by purchasing a series of their items on my numerous buying accounts, leaving a pithy neutral for each of them, and that is them out of business. I'll be damn certain that this will NEVER happen to me, and at the moment the only weapon that sellers have in their self-preservation arsenal is the ability to withhold feedback until it is left for them.

If I now receive a neutral, I reply with a negative, as so far each neutral I have received has been left without prior communciation, and as a seller, I feel other sellers should be warned about inconsiderate buyers who are not willing to resolve problems. If buyers do not like the neg that I leave them, then they can always apply for a mutual feedback withdrawal - again, eBay actively encourages this to invoke discussion between dissatisfied parties, but surely this discussion should happen BEFORE feedback is left? Source

Unfortunately the buyer always has the upper hand, as I have very little way of controlling who bids on my items, how they pay, and if they have a confirmed Paypal address or not. A buyer can find, buy, and pay for an item before I have had the chance to check their feedback, where they have had ample opportunity to check mine before deciding to purchase.

As a (power)seller I have 100% faith in my abilities to provide and accurate and efficient service, but I can not rely on every one of my buyers being smart enough to engage conversation if they have mis-understood something, or are not completely satisfied.

Until eBay quit their blatant double standards on the importance of feedback on evaluating sellers performance, yet it's complete arbitrary and subjective nature, then I can see the majority of sellers adopting this stance. There is also regular discussions on blogs and newsletters about a boycott of feedback that is gathering momentum in the USA. Many sellers are now at a level where their feedback is high enough to prove their worth without receiving any more.I am happy with my 3800+ postives, and to be quite honest, if I do not receive any more, then it is not the end of the world - if a buyer can't trust me after this number of of positives, then I need to consider if I can trust them as a sensible member of the eBay community.

Rant over....

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